Speaker 1 00:00:04 Hello everyone. And welcome to the robot industry podcast. We're glad you're here and thank you for subscribing. My name is Jim Baretta and I am your host, and I'm happy to have Chad Ramsey from Earhart automation on the podcast. Today. Chad has a degree in mechanical engineering from Tennessee technological university, working with integrators and OEMs in tier one and tier two suppliers in automotive and commercial consumer goods. And in the life sciences, he's currently director of automation at Earhart automation systems. And this is the, these are one of our sponsors. Uh, Chad talks a lot about tests and quality assembly automation and process improvement. And he's based in Tennessee, Chad, welcome to the
Speaker 2 00:00:47 Podcast. Thanks for the opportunity Jim.
Speaker 1 00:00:50 Well, our theme today, this podcast is reducing risk in automation. And I know this sounds like a fairly obvious question, Chad, but why do companies want to reduce risk?
Speaker 2 00:01:02 Yes. So to answer that I'll define a risk a little bit. So risk can come in many forms, uh, costs, uh, your delivery of your project. Uh, the integration time, uh, working with your integrator, the, uh, design time within the project, uh, or the different technologies that you're, uh, that you're looking at just to name a few and customer simply want to eliminate, uh, as much of the variables or the unknowns as possible in the, uh, in the risk, uh, elimination phase.
Speaker 1 00:01:37 So Chad, what are some of the common ways that manufacturers might reduce the risk and automation?
Speaker 2 00:01:43 There are several things that you can, uh, that you can do as a manufacturer to, um, to really help your integrator, uh, to help you. Uh, one of those, one of the best is to have a good, uh, specification document, um, RFQ, RFP, uh, whatever the term, uh, that you use, uh, would, would be. But, uh, just having a very well-written and one of the, uh, activities that I see as being most beneficial is to get a, uh, uh, an integrator actually involved in that writing process. Um, the earlier you get someone, uh, from that field involved, uh, usually the, uh, the better, um, you can also, uh, qualify, uh, your, your vendors, your third party. So knowing what type of, uh, and, uh, equipment you want to use, whether that'd be a robot supplier, a vision supplier, uh, et cetera, but you can qualify your third party, automating the things that, that are good candidates for.
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Um, you can take the human factor, so to speak out of it. Um, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having that human factor and having what we would term lean or manual machines. Um, but automating can really reduce, uh, some of those riskier propositions, as well as, uh, I think we all know, uh, one of the main risks, uh, even outside of the equipment is, uh, just the availability of workforce now. Um, everywhere you go, you see hiring signs and we can really, um, reduce that because you know, that that robot is going to show up to work every day. Those are the ways that we can, um, that we can reduce on the, on the front end. Um, as well as, as just identifying what those risks are employed, our, um, you know, what our focus should be on, uh, when, when reducing that risk.
Speaker 1 00:03:55 Yeah. And I like your point about, uh, there's nothing wrong with having a manual station. Like if you've got a really difficult part that doesn't want to be automatically fed, like, that's a really good idea. What do we do? Do we create some weird bowl theaters or do we, uh, do we just put in a manual load station?
Speaker 2 00:04:12 We can we see that a lot with, um, parts that aren't rigid or aren't hard. Um, so if you have tubing or you have, uh, some other softer malleable, uh, material that you're using, that's usually a very good candidate for those manual stations.
Speaker 1 00:04:29 And, um, what about design for assembly and design for manufacturability? Is that something that's still used?
Speaker 2 00:04:36 Uh, it is, uh, yes, quite, uh, quite often. Um, and that comes down to a conversation between, uh, your integrator and your manufacturing engineers. Um, we, uh, everything that we do at Earhart, um, is 100% custom. And so, um, that, that design is taken into account in every stage of, um, of that project.
Speaker 1 00:05:05 And when you are looking at, uh, reducing risk with a manufacturer, do you look at each operation?
Speaker 2 00:05:13 We, yeah, so we do, we, we look at the project as a whole, and then we also look at, um, the individual operations, the project of a whole as a whole, uh, would include things like your, uh, your technology, uh, expertise, um, and that of your employees, um, the, uh, readiness of your company to introduce certain technologies. And then with each operation, uh, we can go through and, uh, and do a risk analysis, um, to see where the, uh, safety risks are, where the operational risk are, uh, where the manufacturing risk are and then, uh, rate those, uh, rank those. And then, uh, from that decide if, and what solution needs to be applied at each
Speaker 1 00:06:06 Chad, what do you, what can you do with your staff to reduce culture issues, especially if they've never been exposed to automation?
Speaker 2 00:06:14 Yeah, so, uh, training is a very, uh, very, uh, readily used aspect. Um, but outside of, of training, that's kind of the go-to. Um, so outside of that training, uh, the earlier you can get your staff involved, um, really get their perspective, um, get their understanding. They may have some skills that you are not, uh, you're not aware of, um, or, uh, some feedback, some perspective that you're not aware of being able to get, uh, overall perspective and, and understanding of, uh, the problems from, uh, what I would call, uh, boots on the ground. Uh, so at the point of an issue or at the point of operation, what about
Speaker 1 00:07:01 Training and retraining?
Speaker 2 00:07:02 Yes. So, uh, I mentioned training earlier on, uh, but really retraining, uh, keeping your, uh, your certifications active, your, uh, staff, both engineering and operational staff, um, aware of the machine and the, uh, the pitfalls possible pitfalls and where the risk is involved in the machine, uh, is something that we, we often see manufacturers, uh, failing to do. They, uh, they do not, they are very focused on the initial training, uh, but then the repeat training is, um, is not either budgeted or, uh, not put as a priority. Um, and that's, that's very important, uh, in the ongoing success of, uh, of a piece of equipment.
Speaker 1 00:07:51 So your advice is to keep training money in their budgets.
Speaker 2 00:07:54 Absolutely. Um, that one time cost is very important. Um, but, uh, to be able to keep that in your budget year after year, uh, to match whatever your plant, uh, training protocol is, uh, is, is an incredibly important and then find, uh, the, uh, white Knights or the champions in your facility as well. Um, you're going to have, uh, people that stand out and are, are trained, uh, that you want to put additional training and make the, uh, experts, uh, in, in that piece of equipment. The downfall to that is you don't want to train one person. Um, I, uh, have dealt with several companies that, uh, their expert so-called expert, uh, has left the company and they held all the keys to all the doors, uh, so to speak. And, um, that's a very painful, uh, position to, to recover from as a manufacturer. So, uh, diversify, but at the same time, find, find your standouts and your champions. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:09:02 I think that's really good advice and you know what you're exactly right. Train them to be trained the trainers and have two of them. Chad, let's dig into the specification document, you know, perhaps you're a manufacturer and you have no idea to start, but you do know an integrator is a good idea. What do you do?
Speaker 2 00:09:16 Uh, many, many integrators will, as I mentioned early on, um, we'll partner with you through this stage. Um, so they can give you some advice of the, uh, different types of, uh, of sections that you need here. Um, we also mentioned the vendors, um, that's a very, generally, that's a standalone document in your specification, um, and that will, uh, go, uh, be a broad or general document that will go piece of equipment to, uh, to the next, and then the, uh, specification document will actually be a machine specific document. Um, it generally starts with a runtime, um, a cycle time piece to piece a, you want to define that, uh, what that looks like for you, if that includes any operator, uh, or if that's just the machine, um, really the more definition that you can get here, um, the better, and then a good statement of what you're trying to achieve, uh, is the basis for a specification document.
Speaker 2 00:10:32 Uh, from there you go out and add supporting documents. Uh, so whether that be a, a drawing package or a call, um, any integrator, um, that, uh, is a serious partner, will have no problem, uh, meeting with you and your team either, um, doing an, an internet meeting or, uh, in-person and talking through your specification and, uh, and really partnering, uh, with you, uh, and taking the, the team teamwork approach, um, on that one thing that I will note there that you want to be sure of is to get an NDA in place, uh, prior to submitting any of those, uh, drawings or, uh, or other documents that, that may, uh, be intellectual property for your company.
Speaker 1 00:11:25 No, I think that's great advice. So what is an engineering study and how do you approach it?
Speaker 2 00:11:30 Yeah, so an engineering study is simply an area that we, as the integrator or you, or the, as the customer or together as a team, uh, we've deemed to be, uh, a higher risk than normal. And with that, uh, we can, uh, undergo a, a phase that we call the engineering study, um, or a standalone project, uh, being an engineering study, really all that is, is a design. Um, those, those can be in several stages. Um, one is just the engineering. So we want to make sure that we have a, a design that everyone is comfortable with, but more often than not, um, those get into a physical build and a test of that, uh, that process. So if you have a process that is a very, um, very risky in, um, the, the material, uh, you know, you're going to have a lot of variation in the material, or maybe it's, again, not one of those rigid materials and you want to study just that part. Um, you can, uh, you can do that. Um, those can range anywhere from a 10 to generally 30% of the project can be in an engineering study. And then, uh, those can be carried into the next stage of the, uh, of the project. So if you have, uh, equipment, if you have, uh, purchased items that are, um, that are, uh, acquisitioned as part of that engineering study, then generally those can be moved into the, uh, the main project as well. Assuming that that study goes well. And
Speaker 1 00:13:17 Who owns the intellectual property from an engineering study?
Speaker 2 00:13:20 Yeah. So that's, uh, a, uh, uh, item for debate at the front end and can be, uh, discussed when, uh, when you decide what that engineering study is. Um, generally the customer will pay for that entire, um, entire, uh, project and, or, or study, uh, and in that case, uh, if they've paid for the mechanical engineering, uh, the controls engineering, as well as the, uh, the build, um, then they would own that IP unless a different agreement was, uh, was, uh, had with your integrator. Uh, in some cases, an integrator is very interested in, uh, in gaining that IP to use, um, with, uh, with other customers or on their own, within their own organization. And in that case, they may, uh, offer a discounted, uh, pricing, uh, to allow the, uh, the customer to save, uh, some capital. And then the, uh, the integrator, uh, would own the IP, but it is, uh, it's just all up for discussion again, um, everything is custom, even the, the terms of, uh, of that, uh, study and that agreement.
Speaker 1 00:14:39 And so I assume that this saves money because the integrator will charge a lot less for that particular station, because all the risk is being taken out of it.
Speaker 2 00:14:47 Absolutely. It's all about, uh, having a high probability of success for both the integrator and the customer. Um, so there's, there's no risk there, so that in and of itself, or very little risk, uh, so that in and of itself, uh, is your main cost saver there,
Speaker 1 00:15:05 Give us some examples of some engineering studies.
Speaker 2 00:15:09 Yes. So, uh, vision is a very good, uh, option for an engineering study. Um, it's, uh, very risky in general, um, just because of, uh, the different, uh, environment that can, can affect that, whether it's lighting, whether it's shine on the part, um, the color of the part, um, just, there are so many factors that can play a part there. Um, so that can be, uh, risky and, and be a relatively cheap and easy, uh, study. Uh, many times our vendors will, uh, we'll do that at a very reduced cost. Um, as a partnership with the integrator, we'll do that as at a very reduced costs or a, um, as a free, um, free study on their side. And, and we're happy to, uh, to help with that as well. Um, the, uh, robotics, uh, if you have a, uh, unruly part, you're not sure, um, say let's say a, uh, an electrical wiring harness, a set of tubes, and you're not sure how that's going to fall depending on the angle that you have, uh, have that in.
Speaker 2 00:16:26 Um, you're not sure how that's going to hang sometimes we'll do an engineering study to make sure that, uh, those parts, uh, are not, uh, do not get tangled, um, to make sure that the, the material handling side of that is, is right, uh, uh, or it could be a new technology. Um, many times there are, uh, you know, we're seeing a lot of, uh, IOT, uh, technologies. We're seeing a lot of, um, 3d printing or 3d visualization technologies, and just making sure that that is the best fit for the customer. Um, and, and to give that integrator, uh, some experience with that specific technology, if you're wanting to, uh, bring in a cutting edge technology like that,
Speaker 1 00:17:14 And sometimes I've seen that deliverables from engineering studies can be simply like, could be a physical report. It could be that tooling that you spoke about, or maybe it's just some video or some code.
Speaker 2 00:17:25 Absolutely. Yeah. Video is a, uh, is probably the most common, uh, that I see. Uh, but, uh, we have provided reports. Um, many times we'll have an insertion force that is, is needed. Um, so we will, uh, use a, a load cell and a press and, uh, determine that insertion do that study if that if the customer does not have that ability. Um, and, and you're absolutely right. It could be, um, anything as simple as code or that report, uh, up to a customer onsite visit to review the, the specifics of, uh, of that bill,
Speaker 1 00:18:09 You know, one of the surprises, I think that some, uh, integration companies get is sometimes with the health and safety department of a, of a manufacturer of a union. Is that something that you could reduce risk of
Speaker 2 00:18:21 As well? Yeah. Safety in general is a, is a very, uh, very large aspect. Um, so one of the, uh, ways that I would suggest, uh, reducing that, that particular risk would be involvement of that organization or the, uh, the safety engineer in your plant, um, early on in the project, uh, we can, uh, dive into exactly how we would, uh, eliminate those concerns, uh, from a safety standpoint, whether that be, uh, light curtains, physical barriers, um, pneumatic barriers, uh, or, uh, or servo, uh, as well as, um, uh, a plethora of other, uh, of other technologies that we can use to keep your, your operators safe.
Speaker 1 00:19:13 So we've chatted before about project management when it comes to automation. So how important is this before the project gets? Let
Speaker 2 00:19:21 Yeah, so, uh, project management is paramount in, in any project that may sound like a, like a very simple statement. Um, but I, I can't, uh, express just how important, uh, your project manager is, um, to, to the success of, of your project. Um, one thing that we can do on the front end is keep them involved. Uh, as the integrator, we can keep the project manager involved and make sure that the project, uh, has good communication throughout, and then your sales individual, um, or applications individual should stay involved, uh, throughout the project, uh, just to ensure that, uh, that you're getting, uh, exactly what was sold and what was promised, um, that, uh, is not none, no area is more important than the, uh, than the internal and external kickoff of the project. So that's really, when you go from a sales standpoint or a front end project before, uh, the PO is placed, uh, to an actual, uh, deliverables on, on the project and make sure that the team is understanding exactly what was sold and, uh, and how that should, should be done.
Speaker 2 00:20:47 Um, so we do, uh, at Earhart, we do both an internal kickoff, and then we do an external kickoff. Um, the internal is just with our staff to make sure we have a full understanding. The external is with the customer staff, uh, engineering, staff, safety staff, uh, and management to make sure that, uh, there are no misunderstandings. Um, so to answer your, uh, your question, the most important thing about the project management is, uh, is the communication throughout the project, whether that be internal, uh, for us as an integrator or, uh, or with the customer.
Speaker 1 00:21:26 It's so funny that you, when you're creating and building these complex machines, it comes back down to communication.
Speaker 2 00:21:32 Absolutely. Yeah. Communication, uh, can, can make a project, uh, succeed or fail quicker than any other aspect of the, of the project. For sure.
Speaker 1 00:21:44 Chad, we've seen after the pandemic, that one of the really big risks that face both manufacturers and integrators is the risk of supply chain. So long lead parts, like even PLCs or robots. What's your thoughts on that as
Speaker 2 00:22:00 We are seeing that, um, go crazy right now. I think everyone is, um, so parts that we would see as 4, 6, 8 week, uh, lead items are, are in almost a year. I mean, it's a 48, 50 weeks in some instances, and these are items, uh, some of these items are items that we, uh, would expect to be stocked. Um, so one thing that you want to make sure of as a, as a, uh, manufacturer, uh, when you're looking for an integrator is that they are aware of that situation. And I think everyone's aware of that situation and in this day in time, um, but that they have a plan, uh, along with you. So if we can't get this item, is it okay if we, um, if we put another item in a similar item, we can make a suggestion for that. Um, or a if, uh, if we need to extend the project, do we have a plan, uh, for that? Is that an option on your side? Just really understanding it again, it goes back to that communication thing. Um, we want to make sure that we are communicating, uh, and then also communicating throughout the project. Uh, if we do see that, um, that's not something that, uh, that you want to bury your head in the sand, uh, as a, as a customer, um, you want to be fully aware and you want to partner with an integrator. That's going to, uh, to have that communication throughout the project.
Speaker 1 00:23:36 And I guess that segues to like your spare parts list, right? As a manufacturer things you could just get off the shelf are no longer on the shelf. So you have most have to be thinking backwards and saying, what other parts do we need?
Speaker 2 00:23:47 Absolutely. Yeah. One of the services that your integrator, uh, can and should provide is a spare parts list, uh, on any, any project. And that will give you a good starting point. Um, but you're right. You've got to be seeing what's in, uh, what's in your, uh, your stock and, uh, what you need as far as those, those long lead items. Uh, generally if it's, if it's not on your floor, uh, it is a concern. If it's a critical part,
Speaker 1 00:24:18 Thanks for this chat. Did we forget anything?
Speaker 2 00:24:21 You know, I don't believe we did. Um, every project is specific and I would be happy to, uh, to discuss, uh, individual projects. Um, the communication is, is the most, uh, uh, important. And we've talked about that, but we also touched on NDAs. We touched on, uh, safety issues and, uh, and training of your staff, um, as well as, as what makes a successful, uh, machine really, it's all about reducing that risk and in order to improve the chances of a, uh, of a successful machine. So I think we covered most of the most favorite thing.
Speaker 1 00:24:59 I think what I'm getting from this is just involve your integrator early on in the process.
Speaker 2 00:25:04 Absolutely. Um, we've said it several times, but communication, communication, communication. Um, the earlier you can have that communication and the more open, uh, that you can have that, uh, that's one of the things that is very important to look for in an integrator is someone who's willing to, uh, keep a dialogue with you and, uh, communicate often and on a deeper level than just the surface of your, uh, your quotation.
Speaker 1 00:25:36 Thanks again, our sponsor for this episode is Earhart automation systems, Earhart builds and commissions turnkey solutions for their worldwide clients. With over 80 years of precision manufacturer, they understand the complex world of robotics, automated manufacturing, and project management, delivering world-class custom automation on-time, and on-budget contact one of their sales engineers to see what Earhart can build for you and their
[email protected] and Earhart is spelled E H R H a R D T. I'd like to thank and acknowledge our partner. <inaudible> the association for advancing automation. They're the leading automation trade association for robotics, vision and imaging motion control and motors, and the industrial artificial intelligence technologies visit automate.org to learn more. And I'd like to thank our partner painted robot painted robot builds and integrates digital solutions. They're a web development firm that offers SEO and digital social marketing, and can up a connect CRM and other ERP tools to unify marketing sales and operations. And you can find
[email protected]. And if you'd like to get in touch with us at the robot industry podcast, you can find me Jim Beretta on LinkedIn. See you next time. Thanks for listening. Be safe out there. Today's podcast was produced by customer attraction, industrial marketing, and I'd like to thank my nephew, Chris gray for the music, Chris Colvin for audio production, my partner, Janet, and our partners, a three painted robot and our sponsor Earhart automation systems.
