Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Designing robots is hard, but building them shouldn't be
Speaker 1 00:00:06 Hello everyone. And welcome to the eighty-three three, the robot industry podcast. I'm your host. My name is Jim Beretta and thank you for subscribing, and I'm happy to have Matt Wix on our podcast today. And he works with <inaudible>. Matt has more than 25 years of experience in the robotics industry with expertise in the areas of logistics systems, motion, and industrial controls and software integration for large scale manufacturing and distribution systems. He has extensive experience in the field of advanced robotic solution development, including robotic solution integration and design matzoh thought leader in the robotics industry holds numerous robotics patents and is a featured speaker at various robotic industry events. He holds a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering from the university of Missouri and Rola and is a registered professional engineer in the state of Missouri. He currently serves on the association for advancing automation board of directors. That's a three and as the chairman of the robotics industry association, board of directors. Welcome to the podcast, Matt.
Speaker 0 00:01:12 Thanks, Jim. Thanks for having me. Hey, no,
Speaker 1 00:01:15 It's really pleased to, uh, to continue the conversation. So I wonder before we get started, can you please introduce Celesta for those people who aren't aware of what swastika is?
Speaker 0 00:01:26 Sure, absolutely. So, so let's stick as a global leader in high reliability design manufacturing and supply chain solutions, and we serve two primary sectors. One's focused in, on designing and manufacturing, networking infrastructure, hardware, um, including next generation compute and storage products for data centers and edge markets. And then the other division is our advanced technology solutions division. Uh, when we provide engineering manufacturing solutions for different markets, including aerospace and defense, industrial, and smart energy capital equipment, and health tech. And then, then robotics obviously falls squarely in this, this division.
Speaker 1 00:02:05 So you are part of your job and part of your responsibility at selestica is to go after the robot industry to get Celesta to build their robots. Is that
Speaker 0 00:02:17 Correct? Yeah, that's correct. It it's, uh, we're, we're, we're providing, um, engineering and manufacturing solutions to companies, uh, robotic, uh, OEMs and companies that are developing and producing their own robots and we're helping them be able to scale cost-effectively their, their solutions.
Speaker 1 00:02:36 So before we get in the meat of today, uh, what kind of big picture trends are you seeing from your customers?
Speaker 0 00:02:43 So being a robotics guy that I am, um, there's, uh, always some very interesting things having in the robotics space. Uh, so for a while we've been seeing a lot of trends in computer vision, machine learning, AI and advanced computing, really propelling into, um, new and novel spaces and, um, being able to perform things that really haven't been able to do before. So that's been a trend that we've seen or I've seen, but there's, there's an evolution of that trend that I'm also starting to see is not only just, um, just the bolting on computer vision or machine learning techniques to industrial arms it's, we're starting to see alternate form factor is actually present themselves. Um, I mean, and I think that's actually probably some of the earliest, uh, um, examples of this actually kind of dates back a few years is in terms of like AMRs and AGVs, and for awhile, you know, when AGVs first came out to the market, it was essentially, uh, you know, you got, let's take a fork truck and let's bolt some sensors on and let's add some algorithms and allow these things to autonomously navigate. And now we're starting to see, you know, we've seen AMR has kind of go through this evolution where there's different form factors that are pretty unique to specific use cases and applications. So we're continuing to see that trend here in more articulated arm and more use case solutions around in logistics and in health tech fields.
Speaker 1 00:04:10 So I'm kind of imagining that I've just started a robot company and there as per your introduction there, like it is a lot of work to develop a robot and then you've got to build them and, and, and qualify them and check for quality. What's the motivation from, uh, for a company to work with an outside resource to build their robot?
Speaker 0 00:04:30 Yeah, well, like you said, those let's say is that right designing robots that is hard work to do. And, you know, you have to have highly trained staff, software, electrical, mechanical mechatronics engineers to be able to, um, to innovate and these, these solutions to really become a leader in your field. And so then on top of once, you've kind of like solved it, the technical component to this. Now you have to be able to figure out, well, how do we manufacture these and how do we manufacture these at scale? And, um, eh, to be able to, to, uh, you know, expand your organization globally and that's non-trivial problems here. So there's a lot of hurdles in terms of, you know, uh, acquiring hardware and acquiring the skill sets and the engineering expertise, uh, to, uh, to, to be able to manufacture solutions, all of the processes and procedures around manufacturing at the high levels of quality.
Speaker 0 00:05:26 A lot of these robotics solutions providers, these are some pretty substantial, substantial challenges. And so that's where we see like, uh, manufacturing capabilities, like with the organizations specifically where we can help bridge that gap and allow the engineering, the companies to be able to keep that really high talent, high caliber engineering talent focused in on the tasks that are adding real value to their products versus, you know, doing things like, you know, documenting manufacturing processes or other kinds of things that are important and very critical to the success of the manufacturing, but not necessarily the best value add for some of these, you know, some of the high caliber talent doing the development work.
Speaker 1 00:06:10 Yeah. It's, uh, it's I think you had me at scale, right. That's the thing, right. Once you've got that robot developed, how do you scale it? So who is your bulls-eye customer when you think about a robot companies?
Speaker 0 00:06:23 Yeah. So the bull's-eye customers are those ones that are entering in that, to that scale, that growth phase of their, their, um, company's life cycle. Um, you know, you start out in the, the mom and pop shop in the garage and, uh, you know, you, you're putting your machines together. You're putting your robotics solutions together. Really you're all in, on solving the technical piece. You're doing a lot of the R part of the R and D. Um, but as you get out there and have some successes in terms of, you know, initial customer deployment, successful pilots, now you need to be able to say, Hey, this thing works great. Now, instead of one or two or five of these things, I need 500 of these systems, or maybe, you know, several thousand. And so then the orders of magnitude, really, um, the complexity go up. So idealistically that, that the, the customers that I think would benefit most from the, some of the skills that, um, come within, um, from a manufacturing partner or those, like, you're just entering into that transitionary phase of scaling up. Um, it's never really, honestly, it's never too soon to engage and it's probably best to engage sooner than later. Um, but, uh, really, as you're looking to transition is, is, um, a good time to engage.
Speaker 1 00:07:43 So who owns the intellectual property when they're engaging with a company like <inaudible> okay.
Speaker 0 00:07:48 Yeah. So in general, our customers on all the, all the IP associated with the engineering and development activities, um, I mean, certainly there's always multiple different ways to approach, um, um, development, but, uh, in general, uh, our, the way we work with our customers or our customers, that's their IP.
Speaker 1 00:08:08 And what tools do you use with your clients? I, I'm kind of off often thinking like zoom and other things, but what are some of the things that you're using now, when you're going down that path?
Speaker 0 00:08:19 Well, it seems like we use a virtual tools more often than not anymore, but maybe that's coming to an end. Um, but in terms of the software tools that we use, um, a lot of the, you know, the 3d, 3d design tools, um, uh, as well as simulation tools to, uh, support the design and development. Um, but there's also, when I think about, uh, tools, I also think about tools in terms of process tools, things like how do we guide our customers into the transition of manufacturing, performing DFX DFA kinds of, um, activity. Um, also processes tools around change management and generation of like work constructions and electronic documentation in our quality processes and all those kinds of things. Those are all tools that we bring to bear here to support this. These are our customers. When they're looking to scale their solutions, they all need to come together to be able to support a successful NPI program.
Speaker 1 00:09:20 And what about spare parts and service and documentation? Are those all services as well that you offer or is that left up to the robot? Uh, OEM?
Speaker 0 00:09:30 It is certainly as it surfaces that we offer, and it really depends on the level of service that our customers require and their, their go to market approach. Um, a lot of companies leverage, uh, integration of partners to do deployments and, um, but a lot of companies like specifically around like health tech, um, leverage our spare parts, service, um, repair and refurbishment kinds of services as well. Um, product documentation, even some logistics services to be able to, to deploy their solutions across the world.
Speaker 1 00:10:06 And so do you find that you're working with, um, startup companies and kind of mid growth companies? Or who do you find you're starting with a little bit?
Speaker 0 00:10:15 Well, I, I have a personal fondness for what the startup companies do. You know, I think that they, um, tend to be on the leading edge of what's happening and pushing those boundaries on what can be done. Um, and they're really, you know, they're laser focused on solving they're they're in customer problems. And so definitely they're there from, from an engagement with, um, um, my organization it's, uh, there is some value in, um, understanding the, the, the benefits of partnering with a manufacturer. Um, but, you know, as these companies, these startups, um, go from building out their prototypes to, you know, really saying, you know, Hey, we need to be able to, to be successful here. We need to be able to manufacture at scale. That's, that's really when it makes some sense to, to engage with a company like ours, um, in, in really the, the, the mature engineering services, the deep engineering expertise, all of the supply chain knowledge, all of those kinds of things, um, can greatly help with this, that transition and allow those startups to be able to focus, um, on, you know, the adding real value to their end customers.
Speaker 1 00:11:33 It's so funny because, you know, especially in the startup world, you need such different skills at such different times that it that's what, one of the things, I think it makes some value to look for an outside, outside company to build product for you.
Speaker 0 00:11:47 Yeah. Right. It's it's, um, it it's like when you go to form your company, it's okay. What are the main, what are the primary kinds of talent and resources do I need to bring to bear here? And again, like I was mentioning earlier, a lot of that focus is on, you know, software and machine learning and computer vision then, you know, really solving and maybe in an enhanced, um, mechatronic designs. Um, but then, you know, as those companies mature, those, those, I should say those products mature then that, that need shifts. And so then you kind of faced with the choice. It was like, well, now do I go and spend, you know, a sizeable chunk of money on buying a lot of, um, uh, manufacturing equipment and hardware, and then scaling up, um, my, your own engineering services to support manufacturing, or does it make sense to partner with, uh, with, uh, um, a company like ours?
Speaker 1 00:12:46 And one of the things that we talk a lot about in the podcast is, um, is this, we call it, it used to call it a looming labor shortage, but that, that shortage is right on top of us. And so hiring manufacturing professionals is really tough thing right now. And you're right. It's, it's a, it just takes a lot of energy, especially zapping out of a, um, out of a startup.
Speaker 0 00:13:10 Yeah. There's a lot of demands that are placed upon those startup companies and those companies that are in this kind of growth phase of a lot of pressures, I should say to, you know, do things faster and smarter and quicker. And, um, sometimes scaling up the resources internally is, is, um, may not necessarily be the right answer.
Speaker 1 00:13:31 So my big question for you is why are robots so hard to manufacture?
Speaker 0 00:13:37 Um, so I'll probably even mess up the quote from Elon Musk, but he was talking about when he was building, uh, cars. And I think he's even applied this to rockets as well. It's like, I think he said it's 10 times harder to actually manufacture the robotics than to, just to do a prototype. And I think you said it was actually a hundred times more difficult for cars. Um, and I think that is a right of recognition, that there's just a lot of complexities coming that come with the processes associated with manufacturing and manufacturing at production level scale. And at the end of the day, it's a lot of the things they aren't necessarily rocket science, but it's, there's a lot of things that need to be managed and managed effectively. Um, the quality processes, the testing, the validation, the regulatory documentation requirements, really when you pile all those things, it can be overwhelming and quite honestly, a distraction to the core business in those precious developmental resources that that companies have. And so by leveraging the qualified manufacturing partners who was already skilled and very adept at performing in these areas, it removes that burden from the development teams, um, and really gets them focused in on those higher valet value, added value added items.
Speaker 1 00:14:57 One of the things that, uh, outside companies are good at is driving costs out of a design. Can you talk a little bit about that for the audience?
Speaker 0 00:15:08 Yeah. I mean, if there is, um, a lot of focusing on supply chain, um, I mean, especially now with it, like in the summit conductor market, uh, about, uh, you know, some of the challenges with actually just delivery, um, it can be, um, a pretty large burden for companies that aren't necessarily, um, um, uh, mature in their management of their supply chain. And then those costs are really those costs are impacted, um, even above and beyond just the supply chain. I mean, costs are, there's a lot of different factors that go into, um, the aspects of driving out costs, um, that, that may be utilizing automation to, to reduce the amount of labor required to manufacture the products. Uh, there's also, um, um, like, like I mentioned, uh, the supply chain capabilities, there's also support in terms of DFX areas in value engineering where, um, added changes or changes to the designs of the products to make them more manufacturable is another, you know, thread to pull on here to drive down cost and become more effective to be able to scale your solutions.
Speaker 1 00:16:24 Thanks, Matt. One of the questions that I I've always been interested in the contract manufacturing world is who owns the bill of materials.
Speaker 0 00:16:33 Yeah. So at the end of the day, we took, when we talked a little bit about IP, I mean, at the end of the day, the customer owns a bill of material, but there's certainly is some ownership in terms of change management and change management process in bill of material validity that the manufacturer owns. Um, you know, there are chain changes that happen. It's just, it's inevitable. And certainly when you're pushing the envelope in terms of, um, um, technology, uh, sometimes they happen more often than you'd like. And so having a good partner with good processes in place, good change management process that can maintain those bills of material. We'll be able to understand the risks associated with the bills of material, um, and then also have, um, secondary and tertiary backups to, um, their supply chains to be able to support that, those volume growth. So those are all very critical kinds of things.
Speaker 1 00:17:26 So if I'm a startup company or maybe a, maybe I'm manufacturing a lot of robots right now, and I just, I'm just seeing increased demand. How does one get started if they think they should outsource the robot build?
Speaker 0 00:17:40 Um, well, it really depends on where the company, where, where they are as a company. Um, many companies start out, uh, at end of the day, uh, leveraging, you know, local job shops, local resources here to provide assemblies sub-assemblies prototypes in, you know, doing some custom build, but as those companies grow, this is really where they need to start looking at, um, you know, partners that can help them scale to the, to the fullest of their case, their capacity. Um, it's always best to engage early in that development cycle. Um, and the earlier engagement that leads to better insight, uh, to prevent any kind of major roadblocks that you might occur down the road. Um, certainly been, and I've been on the design side of the business as well. And, um, you know, you can make some, some decisions upfront that technically may be a good choice, but then, um, can really turn the bite ya down the road in terms of manufacturing at that scale. And so having a partner there along the way to certainly understand what you're doing in terms of design expertise, but then also have that insight into those supply chain and manufacturing. Those are, those are pretty beneficial things to have
Speaker 1 00:19:00 Matt, have I missed anything in our conversation so far today that you wanted to chat about?
Speaker 0 00:19:05 Um, you know, I think I thought we covered some, some great ground today. Um, you know, we really wanted to just convey that, you know, there are a lot of challenges in building a complex robotic systems and these companies can really achieve their goal by, um, and freeing up their resources to, to drive their, their, their companies, um, uh, to the aspirations that they have. So, um, I really do appreciate you having me on podcasts. Uh, I mean, I love what you're doing here, and I think, you know, you've been bringing on some great contests or great guests and have some fantastic content as well.
Speaker 1 00:19:41 Thanks for that, Matt, how can our listeners get in touch with you if they want to find out more?
Speaker 0 00:19:46 Well, you can certainly visit our website at <inaudible> dot com and I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit. So you can feel free to reach out to me directly through LinkedIn as well.
Speaker 1 00:19:58 Thanks again, our sponsor for this episode is Earhart automation systems, Earhart builds and commissions turnkey solutions for their worldwide clients. With over 80 years of precision manufacturer, they understand the complex world of robotics, automated manufacturing, and project management, delivering world-class custom automation on time and on budget contact. One of their sales engineers to see what Earhart can build for you. And Earhart is spelled E H R H a R D T. I'd like to thank and acknowledge our partner. <inaudible> the association for advancing automation. They're the leading automation trade association in the world for robotics, vision and imaging motion control and motors and artificial intelligence technology visit automate.org to learn more. And I'd like to thank our partner painted robot painted robot builds and integrates digital solutions. They're a web development firm that offers SEO and digital social marketing, and they can set up and connect CRM and other ERP tools to unify marketing sales and operations. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, that means me at the robot industry podcast. You can find me Jim Beretta on LinkedIn. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. Be safe out there. Today's podcast was produced by customer traction, industrial marketing, and I'd like to thank my nephew, Chris gray for the music, Chris Colvin for audio production, my partner, Janet, and our partners, a three painted robot and our sponsor Earhart automation systems.
