Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Companies in any kind of industry. It could be pharmaceutical, it could be biomedical, it could be food service packaging, it could be automotive, it could be battery production. The labor challenges are not getting any easier, so the pressure to automate is higher than ever. I don't see it going away anytime, Jim.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Robot Industry podcast. We're glad you're here and thank you for subscribing. Before we get to our episode today, I want to let you know that I have a new podcast I'm starting called Automation Matters. It's about the front end of the automation business and whether you're a builder, integrator, distributor, or robot oem, this is for you. This podcast is about sales, marketing, business development, strategy, and much more. And I'm excited about Automation Matters, but more on that later. We're here today with Ray Osborne and he is from Anchor Danley. Welcome, Ray.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Thanks, Jim. It's great to be here with you today and I really appreciate you having me on as a guest.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Hey, and tell us a little bit about your company, Anchor Danley, because I used to live in Cambridge for a zillion years and I would drive by Anchor Danley and I kept on going, hey, I know that name from somewhere. So tell us a little bit about what you do.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: We have four manufacturing facilities in North America. Two are in Ontario, Cambridge, as you mentioned in our headquarters location is in Windsor. We also have one in Montreal in Quebec, and one in Ithaca, Michigan, which is pretty much in the middle of the state. And for a total of 250,000 square feet under roof. These facilities are heavily engaged in dissect manufacturing, steel and aluminum plate processing and welded custom fabrications. Our core competencies are CNC milling and precision boring rotary type, Blanchard style grinding, welding, stress relieving both by thermal and vibratory methods. And I'll just add that the, the Danley brand is 102 years old and the Anker brand over 70 years old. And once upon a time we were, we were actually competitors, arch rivals. Danley was founded in Chicago, Illinois was first known as the Danley machine specialties who were involved in the manufacture of mechanical stamping presses and then later die sets and standard die sets and anchor die sets itself was founded in Windsor, Ontario.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: And you're. I want to ask a little bit about how you got involved in this business because you, you're an engineer, right?
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Correct. I'm a mechanical engineer by university, bachelor's degree.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: And how did you get into kind of this industry?
[00:02:41] Speaker A: So I, I moved to Detroit in the early 1990s and honestly didn't know anything about Tool and I was a, a college kid with, with some debt to pay and I needed a job and I found the Danley IEM company was looking for a product engineer for, for Indi Tapping. And that's how I got into the industry to begin with.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Oh, that's great to hear. And you've got something actually in common with one of the founders. Can you tell our audience a little bit about that?
[00:03:11] Speaker A: I do, Jim. Yeah. I've played drums since I was 5 years old. I'm still active in a couple of working bands and I live in Nashville, Tennessee and, and almost everybody here plays something. There's an enormous amount of talent in this town. You know, it's not called Music City for no reason, but additionally I'm a collector of vintage drums and I have close to 50 snare drums in my collection presently. The link between the Danley name and the manufacturer of drums lies in the famous name of Ludwig. And you don't even have to be a drummer really to know that name.
Robert C. Danley was married to William F. Ludwig's sister Elizabeth. And Elizabeth was the bookkeeper for the Ludwig and Ludwig Drum Company. And as Mr. Danley was well versed in sheet metal work and tool and dye design, he, he created and patented a number of hardware designs for drum construction, most notably the snare drum throw off mechanisms, lug lug casings for tension rods and claw hooks for drum hoots. And it's really interesting how with the patents and the things that he created, you know, it just was kind of a natural made marriage really.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: So you probably have some of his patented drum mechanisms in your collection.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: I do, Jim. And some of my most treasured pieces date back to the early 1920s and they're very pristine condition and I absolutely cherish them.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Well, next time in Nashville I am going to hook up and I'm going to check out your drum collection.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, please do.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: So what is a die set? Can you just. Because a lot of, I think a lot of people hear about a die set, but they don't really know what it is.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: So a die set, it's a basic framework, you know, you could call it a chassis of short of sorts for, for building a stamping die. It consists of a stationary plate, sometimes called a lower shoe or a die shoe or a die holder. And then there's a moving plate which is called the upper shoe or punch shoe or punch holder. And then there's a series of guide component pairs for precision alignment of those two plates. So the minimum is two, But a die set can have three, four, or even six sets of guide components. In some cases, these guide posts are sometimes called pins. And there are two basic types. There's a plane bearing, a friction style and a ball bearing, an anti friction style. And all of the custom details for the die, be it punches, the die sections themselves, the springs, the forming steels, trimming steels, lifters, all of those are affixed inside the die set. And our customers actually handle all of these details. We provide, you know, the framework and it's kind of like building a car. We supply the chassis and the wheels, and our customers install the motor, the transmission, the drive line, interior, and all the accessories. And this is a loose analogy, of course, but. But I'll just use it anyway.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: And so the die set goes into a press and that's what it manufactures, all the things that we consume, whether it's automotive or medical or whatever, right?
[00:06:26] Speaker A: That's right. And let me just add, Robert Danley recognized the commonality of what a basic die set is. And he essentially brought, you know, the concept of the first standard die set catalog offering to the market. And this was in the mid-1920s.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: And so what's a tooling plate?
[00:06:46] Speaker A: So a tooling plate is really going to apply more to the automation sector, the automation industry. And for materials, the automation industry widely uses mix 6, or some people would say Mike 6. This is a trademarked alcoa alloy. And then there's another Alka 5 aluminum alloy. That's AA5083. This is from PCP Aluminum, which is a Canadian entity. And it's 5% less dense than the Mix 6. But these are both cast alloy configurations and they're highly consistent and they machine very easily. We machine tooling plates, per our customer drawings, to include value added features such as pockets, keyways, tapped holes, dowel holes. And all of these features are to facilitate attachment of various components.
Could be robots themselves. It could be motors, conveyors, specific tooling which are required for the machine to perform its intended function.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: And so you're kind of also really aimed right now at the automation market too, right?
[00:07:59] Speaker A: You know, we are. It's, it's quite interesting, the number of tool and die shops in, in the US and in Canada, I might even include Mexico there, that the number has shrunk over the years. I mean, some of the tool build has gone offshore and we recognized to continue to thrive, to stay afloat, that we had to find markets that needed the core competencies that we have. And we found that very easily in the automation integrators sector. And so that's sort of a natural segue for us. There was weldments, there were. There was plates that need to be machined, Blanchard ground, and so forth. So it was just a really a natural transition for us to. To segue into the automation sector.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: You know, back a few years now, when I was an applications engineer at ats, like Blanchard ground tabletops were the standard. And you guys kind of have a focus on that because you've got a lot of Blanchard tooling, right?
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Yeah, we do, exactly. And I Forget we've got 35 Blanchard grinders across our whole fleet, something like that. And Blanchard is the name of a specific manufacturing, a manufacturer of these grinding machines, but it's somewhat synonymous with rotary style abrasive grinding. In addition to the rotation of the grinding stones on the head of the machine, the table and the work piece also rotate. So a big advantage with rotary grinding is the associated high rate of material removal and the fast cycle times. But the double rotating concept is highly advantageous in achieving a high degree of flatness. And of course, there's a characteristic swirl pattern which is left behind by the rotary process, which is quite aesthetically pleasing. People recognize that. They equate that with flatness and parallelism. And again, I think I mentioned we have some 35 grinders across our fleet, but we have them. The smallest one would be 42 inches in diameter. We have 48, 60, 74, 100. We've got five machines that are 128 inches in diameter, and we have seven machines which are 144 inches in diameter. So we got a lot of swirl going on at anchor. Danley. Yeah.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: And there's a lot of process things that you have to be experts in. Right. Because you're flaming and you're cutting and you're. You're probably torch cutting as well.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Correct. And you know, you're talking about on the fabrication side there. All of it's very common in the. The automation sector. There's a frame, there's a sort of a chassis, and there's two approaches to that. Some integrators will use the very lightweight, extruded tubular aluminum with mechanical joints. And it's sort of like an erector set configuration where you can chop, saw, and cut these pieces to length, and you use the joints to build them custom.
They're lightweight, very easy to use, and common off the shelf items. However, where a steel frame would be needed anytime that there's more mass that's moving if there are higher volumes, if there's higher speeds involved. A lot of times these extruded T slot aluminum beams, they just don't hold up. And you have to have something which is quite robust, a welded construction. We vibratory or thermal stress relieve those after the welding is done because you do tend to get some movement due to heat that's being introduced into the frame. And then after the stress relief, we put it on a large CNC machine and we, we qualify all the mounting surfaces and then we add the value added features such as slots, keyways, dowels and so forth.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: So Anchor Danley is kind of a key supplier to automation integrators because a lot of times they don't want to do this, right. Like they don't want to weld their own tables.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. Automation integrators, they want to focus on the concept design of the autom and throughput cycle times, this sort of thing. And they tend to be more, I would say more concerned with the logic and the programming and really ensuring the reliability.
What we do, Jim, as compared with motors and robots and logic control and this sort of thing, it's kind of unsexy and it's not super sophisticated, but it's, it's structural, it's nuts and bolts and it's, you know, it's very, very necessary. So the integrators that we serve, they really like one stop shopping for all the mechanical. We get a full bill of materials and we do the fab, we do the machining and in some cases there's, there's sheet metal work and guarding and this sort of thing. So, you know, we're capable on the mechanical, the structure of filling the entire bill of materials. And that makes one stop shopping, you know, very easy for the purchasing guys at automation integrators.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: So and of course automation integrators, they're only making money like a lot of people when they ship stuff, right? So the quicker they can ship stuff, the quicker that they get paid and they get the machine into runoff, right?
[00:13:37] Speaker A: That's right. You cannot invoice it until you ship it.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: So and so all the holes and everything else that the. So they literally could get a table with a Blanchard ground tabletop delivered right from Anchor Danley.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: That's correct. That's correct. And typically we will fit the tabletop to the frame and attach it and we'll ship it as a complete unit. That's right.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: And so what some, what are some of the trends that you're seeing in.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: The industry, most notably is the lead time. So it used to be that, you know, for a large frame, I say I'm throwing that term around loosely, but we're a series of frames. It would be maybe eight weeks or 10 weeks would be sufficient and competitive. And we're seeing those lead times really be squeezed. And so 10 weeks becomes eight, and eight becomes six, and six becomes five. So the pressure for companies in any kind of industry, it could be pharmaceutical, it could be biomedical, it could be food service packaging, it could be automotive, it could be battery production. The labor challenges are not getting any easier. So the pressure to automate is higher than ever. I don't see it going away anytime, Jim. So whoever's the fastest, really, sometimes it doesn't come down to price. It's who can deliver within this amount of lead time. That's a very prevalent trend that we see right now.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: And you're probably seeing trends of like larger projects too, right? Where an integrator's got to quote stuff and maybe he's got to build 100 machines. And you, you know, all of a sudden you get this big quote for a hundred machines. It's like, oh, somebody's in, you know, how do we help this company?
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And the size of these can range anywhere from a one off, you know, a single machine.
It can be 2, 4, 8, 100 might be stretching it a little bit. Unless it's like just say robot stands, robot bases, which are almost catalog items. But we honestly, when we open up the RFQ package, we never know from one to the next, you know, what lies there. And we handle quite a bit of things internally, but we have an amazing network of subcontractors and suppliers that we trust. When it becomes more than we can just do under our roof, we have solid bench strength there that we can go to.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: And you also sell like some components for the die sets. I mean, we talked about die sets and these complete die sets, but you also have a division where you sell all the subcomponents to die set people who want to build their own die sets or want to service their die sets.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: That's correct. And some of these items, even not only in tooling, in tool and die, they find themselves in automation applications as well. And it's not uncommon to see small die sets as cutoff stations for a larger machine that's doing other, other things to process and assemble product. But guidepost and bushings, that's the lion's share. They're round items. There's plane bearing Type, ball bearing type. There are wear plates, keepers, pad retainers, mechanical springs, nitrogen gas springs, cam slide units, rotary benders, all kinds of neat widgets that, like I said, find their way into die sets. And also custom automation.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: I saw on your LinkedIn, on the anchor, Daniel LinkedIn, the other day, I saw a round die set. Now, do you see very many of those?
[00:17:15] Speaker A: They're quite uncommon. And when we have those, we do take pictures of them because you may have seen one of the only ones in the last 10 years. But yeah, you know, we, we have a lot of things that, that come through our plant and a rectangular or a square die set, you know, every single day. But when something like that comes through, we usually pull out our cameras and take a picture, providing our customers don't mind that we do that.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: And so how do I go about like, you call on a lot of, you're, you're kind of in the southern U.S. you call on a lot of shops. So who do you call on? Is it, is it engineering department? Is that the plant manager? Like, how does that all work with you?
[00:17:55] Speaker A: So you have to have a relationship with the technical folks for sure, the tooling engineers or the tooling designers.
Once things are in production, you know, there's typically a tool room supervisor or a mechanical supervisor that you have to have a relationship with. And that's for after sales, support and service. And then also on the front end, the procurement arm of the organization, the buyers, the purchasers, you have to know those people too.
They control the money and who gets the work. So really there's at least three touch points in general, and then even sometimes the safety and quality people. So I guess all in, you could call it five touch points. There's five relationships that you really have to maintain at each of your clients. That's a great question.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: So it's a, it is really a complex sale, just like the machinery guys and, and such. So it's, it's interesting that you're going through the same hoops that everybody else goes through.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Well, thanks very much for coming on. Is there anything we forgot to talk about today?
[00:18:58] Speaker A: You know, if I could just add one thing in the automation sector and neatness counts and attention to detail counts. We are fully aware of that. It's not a spacer plate or, you know, a die set. The aesthetics of it in a stamping die application, it doesn't necessarily matter that much. But a plate or a frame that goes into a special machine, it really matters because the person at the end of that or the company that's at the end of that, when that machine is delivered, they want it to look like a brand new Ferrari or a Porsche or Lamborghini or what have you. And we recognize that it's labeling, it's paint, powder, coat platings. It's of critical importance. And then I guess the last thing to add but not least is that what we do, while it may be technically unsexy or unsophisticated compared to robots and motors and so forth, we're always on critical path because they can't put the machine together until our stuff shows up. So we recognize that we have to deliver, we have to deliver on time and it has to be right the first time every time.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: And you deliver via your own trucks, right?
[00:20:14] Speaker A: We do, we do have our own fleet of trucks. We use some dedicated couriers. Sometimes some of the things can be so large that would go on dedicated flatbeds. We do some ltl less than full truck load shipments as well. But when we're able to ship things on our own fleet of trucks, that's really a nice white glove, personal service. And we prefer to do that when it makes sense.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: That way integrators get that plate or that table or whatever or that base when they need it. I remember something that we talked about on our warmup call and that was that you also make a lot of very special bases for machines, like for custom machines.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Yes. In some cases they're bases for actually machine tools.
And these are not for the large machine tool companies, but for the more boutique specialty built companies. Yes, we have done some machine bases like that. Good point. I forgot to mention it.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Hey listen, thanks again. And how if someone's maybe listening in the audience, they go, I should really call these guys and get in touch with them.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: How do.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: How? It's the best way to get in touch with you.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So ww anchoredanley.com that's a n C H O R D A N L Y. That's our website.
Pretty much any and every link that you would need, you can find there. Our RFQ email addresses are there, our phone numbers for each of our facilities. Myself Ray Osborne. Our osborne.com and that's O S B O R N E.
You can reach me at 615-782-1834. I'll answer that phone at any time of night.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Our sponsor for this episode is Earhart Automation Systems. Earhart builds and commissions turnkey solutions for their worldwide clients. With over 80 years of precision manufacturing, they understand the complex world of robotics, automated manufacturing and project management, delivering world class custom automation on time and on budget. Contact one of their sales engineers to see what Earhart can build for you and their info@earhart automation.com and I'd like to acknowledge a three the association for Advancing Automation. They're the leading automation trade association for robotics, vision and imaging, motion control and motors, and the industrial artificial intelligence technologies. Visit automate.org to learn more. And if you'd like to get in touch with us at the Robot Industry Podcast, you can find me Jim Beretta on LinkedIn. Today's podcast was produced by Customer Attraction Industrial Marketing, and I'd like to thank my team, Chris Gray for the music, Jeffrey Bremner for audio production, my business partner Janet, and our sponsor, Earhart Automation Systems.
