Speaker 0 00:00:00 A robot without an integrator is just a really expensive anchor.
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Welcome everyone to the eight three robot industry podcast. I would like to especially welcome our listeners from Hamilton, from Mumbai, from Fredericksburg, and from stood guard. We're glad that you could join us. My guest today is Nathan field from engineer city, Inc. A robot integrator and machine builder from Halifax Nova Scotia. And let me tell you a little bit about Nathan. Uh, currently he is the automation and robotics manager at engineers. As I mentioned in Nova Scotia, Canada. He has five years experience in industrial automation as both a designer and managing a team he's born and raised in Ontario, Canada, and went to school at Mohawk college in Hamilton, all of his industrial automation experience before ingenuity was in Ontario and he's moved to Nova Scotia, but a year and a half ago with his wife and his pets and started at ingenuity shortly after he enjoys all things, automation, including home automation and other side projects. So Nathan, welcome to the podcast. We're glad you could join us today.
Speaker 0 00:01:09 Yes. Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. As I said, or as you said, I love talking automation. So I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 1 00:01:16 Nathan, can you give our audience a little background on engine nuity?
Speaker 0 00:01:20 Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, so yeah, ingenuity, um, as you said, is in Nova Scotia, Canada. Uh, it's about 17 years old. Uh, and uh, it actually started in our president's basement. Ben Garby actually check him out on LinkedIn. Um, so yeah, he started it in his basement. Uh, he started out, I think with one contract actually, uh, him and, and you know, one contract chewing away and then, uh, gradually, uh, developed a team of engineers, mostly mechanical. Um, and then from there they've expanded in the last two and a half years or so. Um, kind of exploding in, uh, in regards to staff, uh, we have 30 plus engineers, technologists designers, um, currently, and, uh, it's, it's come a very, very long way. So all the way from mechanical, as I said, uh, now we have, we have a safety engineer on staff, industrial designer. Um, Quadris as I said, we have a electronics, uh, department that does, um, you know, development, manufacturing.
Speaker 0 00:02:28 Um, we also have a product development sector and of course we have automation and robotics, which is what I'm attempting to bring to the table, uh, that ramped up about a year and a half ago when I arrived. And, uh, it's been quite good. You know, we've done a lot of really neat, challenging projects. A lot of people, especially internally one in particular, uh, likes to call engineer witty a Swiss army knife, uh, which I kind of like, because it's, it's true, uh, clients will come to us with any problem, really, you know, not automation, usually even just an issue or an idea and a engineer pretty because of the team that we have and sort of the vastness of the skillset can, you know, plug away, go from department to department and do a very well-rounded solution. So it's, it's a pretty neat company.
Speaker 1 00:03:26 It's kind of a fun place to be. And in that, um, you can do all kinds of different projects. So I think that's one of the exciting, exciting parts of attracting or retaining a staff. I assume you get into a lot of different automation and we'll talk about it today.
Speaker 0 00:03:40 Absolutely. Um,
Speaker 1 00:03:42 By the way, I'm such a big fan of nos Nova Scotia. I'm very jealous of you, Canada for all of our listeners is one beautiful country and I've been very lucky to have seen a lot of it. But East coast, especially Nova Scotia is one of the most beautiful parts from <inaudible> to grand Prix. Nova Scotia has a lot to offer. So if you're out there and we're post pandemic and you're looking for a place to, uh, uh, to see, I totally recommend, uh, uh, Nova Scotia. So this is a good segue into my first question for you. So you're located on Canada's East coast and the port city power facts. What unusual types of automation are you designing and building?
Speaker 0 00:04:20 Sure. Good question. Um, so as you mentioned in the bio, my background is Ontario. So when I was there, we did a lot more automotive, um, more robotic projects. Automation was a bit more established if you will, there were far more integrators, uh, more options. And, uh, it was a bit different, I would say. Um, so since I came out here, it's been kind of a wild ride in a sense in which we never have the same sort of project twice, uh, because it is in its infancy in a way. Uh, there's a lot of companies that are coming out and getting into automation for the first time. And they may have, you know, companies that are a hundred years old and they have very unique problems. So in regards to how fax and being a port city, as you mentioned, uh, that naturally brings up, you know, step on the water and the Atlantic ocean.
Speaker 0 00:05:16 So we get into anything to do with water, right? Uh, seafood is a big one, really anything owed on boats, uh, we've gotten into, you know, tracking systems and we're working with, uh, various people that are in that sector. Uh, we do a lot of say grading of, of seafood or shellfish. Yeah. So a lot of unique things out here in Nova Scotia. Um, it's a very heavy exporting province. So we get into a lot of seafood and other organic and biological things. Um, surprisingly for me, I found anyways, when I arrived here, there's actually a, quite a nice for, for growing things such as apples and grapes and, you know, things like that. So we've gotten into that industry as well. Um, you know, grading machines, packing machines, you know, other robotics solutions. Um, so it's, it's unique in the sense that a lot of the products are not, um, defined. They're not really produced if you will. So because of that, you come into variability and, you know, and consistencies that are really a nice fun challenge, I guess you would say.
Speaker 1 00:06:31 And you must be doing a lot of education to a lot of your prospect clients out there, right?
Speaker 0 00:06:36 Yes. That's a very good point. Uh, and that's, that's unique to me anyways, um, coming to a place in which the answer wasn't already automation. Um, so it's, it's really cool actually, you know, you you'll go into a place and, um, they had never really thought of that being a solution, you know, they've done it the same way again and again, and it works. Uh, but that isn't the optimal one. So, you know, we come at them or we recommend, uh, solutions and it's, it's really cool to see the, you know, the, the light bulbs go off. Uh, and since we've been able to nail a couple good jobs, uh, we have real stuff in front of people and they're seeing the benefits and it's, it's actually kind of amazing to see. Uh, and one thing I'd love to say to that is unique, um, from my perspective and what I've seen is, uh, Nova Scotia is really good at funding. Uh, so the government and other agencies realize, you know, we need to remain competitive out there on the, on the world landscape. So there's a lot of funding for the smaller companies. And, uh, often they're investing that in automation.
Speaker 1 00:07:45 That's very cool to know because, uh, you're doing a lot of things, like first things, right? Like you're maybe grading shellfish or lobsters or something like that. So you have to be, uh, open to looking at some other creative ways to fund some of the engineering behind the automation.
Speaker 0 00:08:04 Exactly, exactly. And some of the fun parts of it too, is it's not a off the shelf component, right. You're, you're not, you're not able to Google, you know, lobster grading machine, um, that's custom and that they could put on their lines. So it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:08:22 And what about the culture of automation? Like I'm getting a good feel for the culture of automation at engineers and what, but what about the people that you're coming in contact with your prospects about automation? It seems that they're pretty open
Speaker 0 00:08:33 Intuit as well. They are, they are, um, you'll have, you know, some people that, uh, that are maybe hesitant. Um, there are large companies. I, I, I don't want to undermine that. We just haven't worked with them, but there are companies such as Pratt and Whitney and Michelin, and, uh, there's a couple others, but not many. Um, so there's, there's far more companies that are not established in regards to automation and are a smaller company. Um, so those, those companies, uh, they do come to us and, uh, often they have an idea of what they may want, but, uh, there's not nece necessarily concrete examples of what it looks like. Um, so it's, it's a, it's a lot of, you know, optimism and ideas, and then we're able to bring it to life. Um, there are classic stories of, uh, of the robot on the shelf.
Speaker 0 00:09:31 Um, much like my intro lines stated, you know, a robot without an integrator is kind of a paperweight or a dust collector. Um, so we'll come in sometimes and, you know, sometimes a company may have given it a try and didn't have the support perhaps to make it work, uh, or they, they quit before they got, you know, any, any measurable results. So that's, that's been fun to come in and say, Hey, you know, sorry, you had a bad experience, but with the proper, you know, integration and thought process that you can really, really, you know, benefit your company here. So that's that robot in the quarter, right? That's the robot as an anchor or a paperweight.
Speaker 1 00:10:13 And what about, um, you know, when you're, when you're, when you are educating your clients, do you see like a special need for cleanliness when you're dealing with some of the things that you're doing with, uh, say Sui seafood, for example?
Speaker 0 00:10:24 Well, sure, absolutely. Uh, and that is a challenge in the robotic industry as well. Um, so it is food and Bev, if you will. So you need the high IP rating, um, you know, the right componentry that won't, uh, chip or fall into the food or any other thing you're processing. Um, so yeah, there, there's definitely ratings that, uh, we need to meet. We're kind of treading the line of what is normally done in the sense that we're trying to make more robots, IP 69 shape, for instance, which is, of course, if you don't know, uh, IP is ingress protection and IP 69 shares the currently highest rating, uh, and a lot of robots don't out of the box, maybe play in that space. Um, so it's, it's fun to really try to bring that forward and really try to see what, what we can do and where we can put robots.
Speaker 1 00:11:21 And I assume that you're doing a lot of work in safety as well, and especially safety when, when you start thinking about being so close to, uh, to water.
Speaker 0 00:11:30 Right. Um, yeah. So, so, so far, um, the, the majority of the safety stuff that I've gotten into has been risk assessments of our equipment, or, you know, a client may come to us and they need the, um, sort of a third-party perspective. Um, so we do a lot of functional safety. We have a safety engineer on staff. Um, so we do that, uh, but there a unique, uh, safety requirement or, or design consideration when you're putting, you know, potentially high voltage components on a boat or, you know, close to water. So, uh, we need to, uh, be very particular when designing those systems and ensure we're following, you know, local codes and we're using certified components. So it is, it's a little bit more tricky than say, you know, when I was in Ontario and designing things in a nice clean factory, uh, there's a lot more considerations. Um, and yeah, it's, you really need to think long-term because if you put the wrong component in, you know, it could only last a couple of months because of the saltwater in the air, let's say, or other sort of water ingress.
Speaker 1 00:12:39 Absolutely. What trends are you kind of seeing then from your vocation? Are you seeing bigger automations, smaller, collaborative?
Speaker 0 00:12:46 So I would say the, the major thing that I'm seeing personally is, is I would say adoption first, right? So these companies are, are taking a leap into it, they're trying it out. Um, and they're, they're trying, you know, smaller entry, um, products often. Um, so because of that, you know, there's, there's a lot of talk and, um, certainly a lot of attention in collaborative robots, which, um, have the natural, um, sort of benefit of quick deployment. Um, and, uh, you know, it's, it's quick to get up, you know, the programming is not that intense, it's fairly intuitive compared to other robots. So there's a lot of clients that are coming to us saying, um, we would like a robot that is versatile, um, dynamic, doesn't take a lot, a lot of time to program. Um, we can work around, you know, like the, the classic, uh, I'm sure everybody who, pictures, robots, pictures, you know, the, the robot arm in a cage and you can't get close to it because it, it could really hurt you.
Speaker 0 00:13:53 Um, so there's, so there's that. So a lot of people are seeing the, the low entry point of, uh, collaborative robots, um, the, the ability of working close to, uh, to the, to the robot when configured properly and just, you know, being able to get results quick. So I see a huge advantage and a push for that, especially in, uh, things such as welding is a as a place that I'm excited to see a, a cobalt in. Um, so that's, that's awesome. And, uh, you know, painting applications, palletizing, things like that. Um, in regards to size, um, we, we had ingenuity, our first major project was quite big. Um, but where I see, you know, the majority of the future jobs being are, you know, integrating to solve a problem that they've had and they've had it for years and we just go, we solve that problem. And, you know, they may, may not get funding for that. And then we move on to the next one. And as long as you think, big, uh, you know, and, and high level enough, then each one of those solutions you put together is actually a part of one larger one. So, uh, so that's, that's sort of the trend I see here in Nova Scotia. And, uh, it seems that it's strong as ever.
Speaker 1 00:15:12 And so what other unusual types of automation that are, are you building because of your vocation? So
Speaker 0 00:15:19 I've covered a couple of the things for sure that, uh, make us unique. Um, as I mentioned, biological, so a lot of seafood, um, it, you know, you may see, uh, agriculture as well. Um, there's a lot of, you know, farming, as I said, but there's also even people doing vertical farming, um, in which, you know, there may or may not be the need for a cobalt or machine vision, um, even, you know, little mini, uh, concepts on, uh, you know, automated order fulfillment. Um, and you're being intelligent about, uh, about how you pick things and, um, you know, being dynamic. Yeah. So, so those are the major things that I find unusual. Um, there's also an engineer witty. We, we actually put a lot of time and effort into R and D. Um, so we've sort of created some cool, unusual systems out of the, the need or the knowledge that there will be need, um, such as, uh, 3d picking.
Speaker 0 00:16:24 So obviously the space of, of 3d bin picking is sort of bleeding edge right now. Uh, and it's, it's great and established four components that are always the same, right? Like, you know, similar part or even they're different, but each part is fairly similar to the other part that is in the same class. Let's call it. Now, what we've been doing and developing heavily is a 3d picking of objects that will not be the same size. Like, you know, you know, one organism isn't the exact same size as the other. I may be at different angles, it might be moving. Um, it could be intertwined with something else. So we've been doing development on, you know, the 3d vision thing, um, but also, uh, articulation and, um, sort of artificial intelligence to figure out what it is, um, get rid of anything that it isn't and just calculate a pinpoint and go in and pick it. So that's been fun for me because in my opinion, that's sort of the one thing that is lacking or, uh, maybe not being pursued because it is a little, you know, it's, it's kind of further down the line. Like let's a lot of people are like, let's solve the, the easier ones first and I'm all for that, but, uh, we've kind of jumped ahead a little bit and said, you know, let's try this other stuff. Uh, so that's been, you know, quite unique in my opinion,
Speaker 1 00:17:54 You know, 3d bin picking is hard enough when everything is still and not moving, but throwing the fact that nothing's the same and, and it's moving, it's quite challenging. So good for you. That's very exciting. So you talked a little bit about robots and boats and, uh, you know, the IP challenges and making sure that everything is going to last a few more longer than a few months. What are some of the other challenges of actually putting a robot on a boat?
Speaker 0 00:18:22 Sure. Um, you know, solid question, um, there's a couple that jumped to mind. Uh, one ironically is the inability to test it conclusively. Uh, and what I mean by that is it's hard to replicate the motion of the ocean if you were like the, yeah. Like, so in other words, you could, you could try, or you could at least say, okay, it works in this very defined, you know, place here. It is on the floor, on the shop floor, it works. Uh, but all things, you know, all bets are off when you put it out on a boat. So, so that's a challenge getting a real testing environment, um, to sort of prove it out, um, getting it on the boat is challenging. Um, the last time, you know, we did an install. You, you realize how little those little man doors are to get to and from different rooms inside of a boat.
Speaker 0 00:19:22 Uh, you realize that pretty quick when you have, you know, a fairly large chunk of robot frame and you're trying to bring it through a door. So, um, so commissioning and installation is a challenge. Um, and then as, as we said, IP challenges, design considerations, uh, another, another thing to think about too is, uh, is power and energy. Um, so on a boat, the boat is its own power system. So you don't just have the luxury of, you know, utilities that are there and you plug it in and it works. Um, so energy is sort of an important factor and you want to minimize that. So, uh, when considering designs on the robot, you may look at, you know, lesser power hungry and of arms tools, um, such as, you know, not maybe using air, but using electric, um, because there takes a lot of energy. Um, so yeah, energy testing environment, IP considerations, uh, even even power, as I said, in the sense of fluctuation, right. Because, uh, you don't have, you know, the infrastructure we have, so you need to worry about power, consistency, or accounting for lack thereof. Um, and yeah, those are, those are the major ones I would say, really.
Speaker 1 00:20:45 And do you have to, like in robot for use in Marine or is that kind of just my perception
Speaker 0 00:20:52 We haven't had to yet? Um, so we do, so I would say the majority of people that have seen an IP 69 K robot have probably seen a Delta, uh, spider bot, the, uh, the triangular multi-armed robot. Um, and that's because you're able to throw a nice encasement around the servo motor soft top. Yep. Um, so that's been the low entry point, uh, or I should say the less path of resistance I would say into that field. But, uh, now we're getting into, you know, six axes arms with IP 69 <inaudible> capability, uh, which is kind of a game changer because you need a lot, a lot less infrastructure to support that robot. You don't need a frame going, you know, up and over the conveyor. Now you can have it beside it. Um, and there's, there's other advantages too. Um, but yeah, so, so far it's been a lot of deltas, but, uh, we're, we're really trying to push the envelope, get into six axes and who knows maybe, maybe SCARA robots, you know, later, uh, but we'll, we'll one bridge at a time.
Speaker 1 00:22:02 Absolutely. And what about prototyping automation? Like you must do a lot of that type of work. Uh, what does a typical engagement look like?
Speaker 0 00:22:11 Sure. Uh, so yes, we, we do a lot of it. Um, probably the most fun part of my job is the fact that we have, you know, five robots out in the back there and we can try out essentially anything so often. And engagement goes one of two ways. Um, either a client comes to us with a very defined problem, right. Um, maybe they're more experienced, so they have, you know, production schedules, they know exactly what their bottleneck is. And then, so we come in and we may have input and we may not, we may not need to, uh, and then we, you know, wrap around a concept and get together a quotation, you know, define metrics and put together the necessary proposal. Um, but, um, more often than not, uh, because of the infancy of automation and also the nature of engineer witty and you know, what we're good at, uh, they will come to us with the problem, um, saying, you know, we don't know how to deal with this and we'll say, okay, you know, and order of operations, is it, could it be solved by a robot?
Speaker 0 00:23:20 Does that make the most sense? If, so it comes to me and we think about it, us in the guys or me and the guys. And, um, we have lots of options out there on the floor, you know, various end of arm tools, different robots, machine vision, you know, we have quite an arsenal of different ways of solving problems and we can also simulate in multiple ways. Um, so usually, you know, they, they come to us and if we can't say for sure that we can solve it, uh, often what we do is we throw it together. What's called a discovery or a concept. And, uh, what we do is it's a fairly low risk, low cost, um, relationship in which we solve the problem. You know, we, we put together documentation and maybe a couple of videos prove it out. And then, you know, the client has then not needed to invest in such a grandiose, um, system, right? They're, they're not needing the full entire system. The idea has been proven the hard part, you know, quote unquote has been solved. And then, uh, they can comfortably go through with the next step, which is often what I mentioned initially, which is a full proposal and a full specification document. Um, so we sort of attack it one of a couple of ways. Uh, and, and those are the majority of what I've seen so far.
Speaker 1 00:24:47 I'm a big believer in prototyping and automation, because it just reduces the risk on both sides of the equation.
Speaker 0 00:24:53 It does, it does honestly. Um, and it's a whole lot of fun too.
Speaker 1 00:24:59 It's a good segue into my next question. And my last question is really about innovation and what is your approach to innovation?
Speaker 0 00:25:07 Um, so we do it a few different ways. Um, a lot of it, you know, I'd say it's half and half. Some of it is client driven. So the client comes to us. And, um, we, as I said, we have, uh, quite a, a vast team of engineers and technologists and designers. So often, you know, we all get together and we all have good input, so we can really solve the problem and, you know, very imaginative and efficient ways. Um, so that's, you know, often the way we do it, uh, but we also internally set milestones. So a lot of what I've mentioned about 3d vision and, you know, stuff we do in house that isn't client facing is, uh, many milestones that I may set for the guys. You know, let's try doing this. It may or may not be done before, but let's see if we can do it. And when we have time, we, you know, true on it a little bit and try our best to make it happen. And, uh, even if it doesn't realize the ultimate goal, you end up realizing and learning a bunch of little neat things along the way that you can use for, for other projects. So having that, uh, the capability to innovate, I think is really important.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 It's so critical for an automation and machine builder like yourself. Nathan, thank you very much for your time today. How do people get ahold of you if they want to learn more about you or about ingenuity?
Speaker 0 00:26:34 Absolutely. Um, a couple of different ways, you know, check out engineering Inc CA and check out the website, see what we're all about. Uh, if you want to, to me directly, and I'm very active on LinkedIn, I posted a lot of robot videos, so you'll get to see that. Um, so that's Nathan Fields, LinkedIn, uh, engineered again, you'll find me, uh, if he wants to reach out directly, uh, feel free to send me an email. Uh, Nathan N a T H a N at engineer, witty Inc CA uh, engineer witty is E N G I N U I T Y and Inc. And then.ca
Speaker 1 00:27:13 Our sponsor today is arc X. Their solution allows manufacturers to create a custom error proofing system with a minimum of components and integration effort. RKX manufacturers, interface devices that connect factory assets to the enterprise using standard protocols. The result is the optimization of human capital Artex systems are used in hind Heinrich's manufacturing environments, enabling pokey, Oak integration for error free final assembly and test. And you can find them at arc X, a R C x.com. I'd also like to thank and acknowledge our partner eight three, the association for advancing automation, 83 is the umbrella organization for RIA AIA, M C M a N a three Mexico. And these four associations combined represent almost 1300 automation manufacturers, components, suppliers, systems, integrators, and users, research groups, and consulting firms throughout the world that are driving automation forward. I'd also like to thank our partner painted robot painted, grow up builds and integrates digital solutions.
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[email protected], where you can find me Jim Beretta on LinkedIn. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. Be safe out there. Today's podcast was produced by customer attraction, industrial marketing, and I could thank my nephew, Chris gray for the music, Chris Colvin for audio production, my partner, Janet, and our sponsor arc ex.
